Myth System
Post 1: Gatz · 2012-02-09 19:49 UTC
This post is to talk about the new skill pool system I mentioned before, the idea is insanely rough and most likely I won't share a great amount of detail or let players give a lot weigh-in. This is more rough draft.
The system will be called 'Myth' and players will earn 'Myth Points' or MP. Starting at level 100, players would gain 1 MP every 100 levels. So the break down on levels when MP would be gained:
100, 200, 300 - For a total of 3 MP
The list for Myth Skills would be the MList and it'd be based on points. So, the number next to the skill would be how many myth points (MP) that skill cost:
1 - Summon (Will not divulge any more details about this for now) Week of 3/19/12
1 - Convert to 5 practices Ready!
1 - Convert to 10 trains Ready!
1 - Chidori - High chance to miss, requires 25% of the user's Chakra to do, damage scales based on how much Chakra funneled into this Week of 3/19/12
1 - Rasengan - Base level Rasengan, requires a clone to help do the move Week of 3/19/12
1 - Eight Gates Ichi - Able to open gates 1->3, drain heal in exchange for being able to raise stats, ability to dodge, ability to land hits and more damage Week of 3/19/12
1 - Iron Body - Bones never break Week of 3/19/12
1 - Amazing Body - The level of LSCing needing to gain a stat is reduced Ready!
1 - One Handed Hand Seals - Can form hand seals with one hand 3/19/12
1 - Journeyman - Foreign skills act like your native skills with no practice point penalty or lack of ability to unpractice Ready!
1 - Tensai - "Genius" - Practicing skills, training needs no trainer. You are your own trainer. Week of 3/19/12
1 - Rapid Handseals - Performing any hand seals can be done near instantly. Week of 3/19/12
1 - Sharingan Level 2 (2 Tomoe, must know normal Sharingan, can copy moves to learn them temporarily)
1 - Sharingan Level 3 (3 Tomoe, must know Sharingan Level 2, can cast Genjutsu with the Sharingan, has -very- high ability to dodge Ninjutsu and Genjutsu)
1 - Byakugan Mastered (Gets a giant bonus to Taijutsu and can see up to 1 room away in a normal look, can see people's exact Chakra and Stamina)
2 - Stamina SIpper - Stamina cost on moves is vastly reduced Week of 3/19/12
2 - Chakra Sipper - Chakra cost on moves is vastly reduced Week of 3/19/12
2 - Mangekyo Sharingan (Requires Maxed Sharingan or Imp Sharingan, Genjutsu which has no setup time and immediately puts all the user's known Genjutsu on the target)
2 - Eight Gates Ni - Able to open gates 4->5, drain heal in exchange for being able to raise stats, ability to dodge, ability to land hits and more damage
2 - Eight Gates San - Able to open gates 6-8, drain heal in exchange for being able to raise stats, ability to dodge, ability to land hits and more damage. Opening the final gate auto-kills after a timer, but the stat boost/damage boost is -massive-.
3 - Unbreakable Genjutsu - Genjutsu that is so strong it can't be broken with Kai or Break Week of 3/19/12
3 - Elemental Shield - Elemental attacks which would be strong against you, based on your affinities, now do normal damage Week of 3/19/12
3 - Implant Byakugan (A la Ao, equivalent to maxed out Byakugan but the Chakra cost is -much- higher)
3 - Implant Sharingan (A la Kakashi, equivalent to a maxed out Sharingan but the Chakra cost -much- higher)
4 - Unleash (Turn on Jinchuuriki-esque Chakra type powers)
4 - Sharingan (Base, 1 Tomoe, gets a slight bonus to dodge Tai/Nin/Gen and bonus to land moves)
4 - Byakugan (Base, gets a bonus to Taijutsu)
6 - Rinnegan (TBD)
This isn't any sort of final list by any means, but you can get the feel for what this is going to be. Basically, epic skills which have an epic cost. I want to make it so that most players can get a couple mythical skills, but really devoted players can build a kind of war engine. I'm not sure if I'd inherently block someone from doubling up and doing Rinnegan, Sharingan and Byakugan, but if a player sunk in the time, I think why not?
Anyways, this is a rough, rough, rough idea for how Myth will work.
Edit Note: Updated the skill list with some tweaks and suggestions from players
Edit Note 2: Updated again based on my most recent comment to adjust how the Myth List would be
Edit Note 3: Revised with the final list of how things will work, and marked which skills will most likely be ready for the Birthday Bash on Monday, March 19th
Post 2: Hakai · 2012-02-09 20:39 UTC
Will these skills carry over on a Legacy character?
It sounded like it so I assumed so, but wanted to clarify.
I think you should be able to combine two of the eye Dōjutsu if you get them implanted, but not get all three and not get them at their full level.
Doing this and then being able to mix and match bonuses from two implanted eyes could be an interesting way to add more customization options, I know it's unlikely many people would ever get all three anyway
Post 3: Yokichi · 2012-02-09 21:24 UTC
One question about the summons, is it going to be like toads where you can summon multiple different kinds each able to do something different or a personal summon like Enma the Monkey King?
I love the gain 3 practices idea, I think its also a good amount.
I hate the gain 5 trains idea though. I have seen a pattern that you are decreasing trains while encouraging more LSCing, which I think is one of the best mechanics in the game, although incomplete. I think a better idea to replace this one is double LSC gains for ONE stat. Still costing 1 MP for each, it would encourage LSCing even more, and making a more specialized character. Although for this to be a good trade off for the gaining 5 trains there would have to be a way to gain CHA and LCK as right now they cannot be increased through LSC (except for LCK using the questions, but we need something less random and more like slots or some dice game, like the one Tsunade was playing before she became Hokage).
I have no problem with the Journeyman. I stick to native skills so I have no real input on this at this time.
I don't like Tensai. I feel that there should be multiple trainers who can only train specific skills. Like a basic, generic one for all of those Double Kick, Custom Genjutsu, etc skills. Then there can be a Fire trainer, which teach Hosenka etc and a Leaf trainer who teaches Leaf-Taijutsu and Shadow Clones. Each of them could also be used as quest givers to "unlock" the ability to learn any or a specific skill. I am suggesting this to replace the Tensai as I don't like to just say "I don't like X". I just don't think it would really be used that much, but thats just me.
Love Iron Body. I think its a very good idea, but NEVER breaking?? Would rather have only criticals and specific skills damage your body. Like Solfege or Throw.
I dislike Chidori and Rasengan being added. I feel those skills should never just be POOF learned, as Sasuke took 1 month to learn Chidori from Kakashi, and Naruto took a week and a bit (think it was 9 days..? Not sure) from Jiraiya. And would these skills take up a practice point as well or are they a "bonus" skill? Would rather have these skills earned through a quest line and at the end costing 2 practice points instead of one.
I knew this day would come eventually. FINALLY we are THINKING about dojutsu. Lets get the Byakugan, Sharingan and Mangekyo out of the way first. No. Don't want them. I want the CLANS for these. ONLY the clans may possess these. Maybe make the clans for these, but you have to remort INTO them, forcing you to discard ALL your equipment and then be able to attain these dojutsu through the Myth system. Now the Rinnegan. Too strong, these has been like 4 people in the WHOLE series who could use it and all of them are Godlike compared to any other shinobi. Maybe if someone were to remort like 3 or 4 times I could see this being a "special" exception. Now for the Implant Sharingan. YES. Bloody hell YES!! Implant Byakugan while your at it (remeber Ao?). But I again would prefer it to be a quest reward. Maybe the whole Implant Sharingan/Byakugan could be an event held by one of the Immortals. Once or twice every month. Some sort of competition or race. Maybe a race to the finish line with PK on? Or a scroll thing like the Chuunin Exams. With aggro mobs and such.
Unleash is a nice idea, but I don't want all those Jinchuuriki kind of players. I want Ninjas like Shikamaru, Chouji, Asuma, Kurenai, Kisame (they all use jutsu and aside from Kisame have nothing "special" about them, aside from the clans thing). I don't want Jinchuurikis unless theres tailed beasts...which would mean we need sealing jutsus. I feel this might need to be explained with more detail, as how far you would implement, what kind of "Chakra type powers" do you really mean? Chakra arms? Cloaks? Version 2? Increased Regeneration? Increased Chakra? Theres alot to be explained so this is all I can currently say about it.
Ok. Eight Gates. I don't know much about them to begin with, but all I see is a powerup which hurts you once your out of it. Decreased regeneration? Maybe a percentile decrease on your MAX HP/Chakra/Stamina for a few ticks? Having it depend on the number of gates opened, for percentile and time. I think making it cost 3 MP would be better as it always seems to balance itself out at the end.
This is my take on all of those specific examples for the Myth System. But I would also like to talk about how the Legacy System would work with it. If you remort you will get rid of all of those you have earned in the Myth System, correct? What if you just add it on? Although you won't get all your old Myths (What are we calling the items on the list??) back at the beginning you could have to earn them back through quests or maybe slowly gain them back. Maybe every 35 levels you gain back one. Making the Practice/Train ones come WAY later (like 200?) while dojutsu come back closer to 100. Iron body could come fast. Tensai/Journeyman would come later on. And if you liked my LSC idea instead of trains it could come at the beginning. And to make my last final comment on Chidori/Rasengan... Would rather have jutsu cost practices while Myths become just character traits. Good day and have fun reading.
Ok Hakai, you beat me to it. So now to comment on your post. I would like to only allow one Implant Dojutsu.
Post 4: Hazamishi · 2012-02-09 23:59 UTC
While I am super psyched about elements going in, I would rather see this go in first. >_>
Post 5: Isamu · 2012-02-10 00:40 UTC
@Yokichi:
First, he said he wouldn't talk about summons.
I think 3 practices is fine, but I also think you should be able to spend more MP for more practices, say: 2MP for 7-8 practices.
5 trains is not that bad, and while encouraging LSC is a good thing, LSC is completely optional. We want people to have the choice, not force them to waste their hard earned MP on a system they'll never use.
Journeyman is neat, and the other side of of a genius ninja.
Tensai is awesome, for a prodigy type character. These are the ninjas who taught themselves how to do things. Your idea for element specific trainers might be good for higher level ninjutsu, but for generic attacks like goukakyuu and kasui mizu, it's best to stick with a generic trainer. Also, why wouldn't Genjutsu have it's own trainer? It's a specialty just like Ninjutsu, so why not?
Iron body will be great for players who have small amounts of HP.
Chidori and Rasengan are never just POOF learned, you have to get to level 150 to get them, and let me tell you, that takes a while. I think that a truly resourceful ninja might come up with the same technique after years of development, even if the name differs, the end product could be the same.
Clans are a sure fire way to get the eye techniques, but there are other options. there can be schisms in families, runaways and exiles that might pass on their gifts to children or grandchildren. I would say that if a person has worked hard enough to remort they can get an eye technique, and if they remort again, they could get another eye technique. Rinnegan should require other eye techniques to purchase, or at least two remorts.
Unleash is practically what Kisame was all about, having the chakra equivalent of a tailed beast, without actually having one. No cloak, nor arms, nor version 2's, just pure chakra. Now we all know that Jinchuurikis heal abnormally fast and have great stamina and chakra regen, but the key is their longevity: massive pool of Chakra. As this is in the middle of the 2-year break in Naruto, all the tailed beasts have been captured/found/in villages.
Eight gates is the Strength equivalent to Unleash. Each stage grants more strength, speed, and toughness, to the point of standing up to a tailed beast or two. The downside is only slightly bad at first, but after the 4th gate, a ninja might need a month or more of bed rest, and of course the downside of the 8th gate is death. I think that the first 4 gates might be bundled together for 3MP, but each one thereafter costs 1MP.
Why on earth would these be removed? I can see some of them being removed (all the 1 point items) but that's all your hard work down the drain, and some of them make sense to carry over (anything related to bloodlines or anything teachable). I'm of the opinion that they should all stay with the character at remort, they would just take a long time to get back to 100%. I like the idea of them slowly coming back, but I can see that being a hassle to code in, and anything to save Gatz time on this would be good.
I could see two implants, but that would be kinda hard to manage, as you'd be blind whenever you didn't want to use them, of course we've had "blind" characters on the MUD before, so I wouldn't be against 2 implants.
@Gatz:
Have tiered practices and trains: 1MP = 3pr/5tr, 2MP= 7pr/12tr, etc.
Only one eye technique per remort. Multiple eye techniques over multiple remorts (except Mangekyo). Only one active at a time.
Clarification on Unleash.
Eight Gates: first 4 for 3MP, each one there after is 1MP extra.
Possibly 2 implants but you can't use both at the same time.
Post 6: Gatz · 2012-02-10 19:08 UTC
Okay, a -lot -of posts happened on this...so... I am going to go one by one and so this will be very stream of conscious. Fore-warning, some responses will be a 'wait and see,' for now.
Hakai wrote:
Will these skills carry over on a Legacy character
They would not. However, after doing legacy, you'd gain more Myth points the next go-around.
Yokichi wrote:
One question about the summons, is it going to be like toads where you can summon multiple different kinds each able to do something different or a personal summon like Enma the Monkey King?
At a later time, I'll go into gory detail on what will entail here. I think you all will like what I am cooking up.
Yokichi wrote:
I hate the gain 5 trains idea though. I have seen a pattern that you are decreasing trains while encouraging more LSCing, which I think is one of the best mechanics in the game, although incomplete.
Fair enough, I might let other players weigh in on this and see, but right now I like the idea of giving people the option of spending their myth points towards this. Each MP should be weighty and I want players to really take pause and be happy with their choice. As there won't be a way to 'unpractice' myth skills (for now), I don't want players to feel like they can make 'wrong choices'.
Yokichi wrote:
I don't like Tensai.
You raise fair points. As the system stands, it supports having trainers for specific abilites. I never really liked that, however. I do see adding more SBAs which have that, however. The Myth system isn't designed to replace SBAs and I plan on still trying to put more of those in. I think if people think this ability to too unbalancing or too uneven it'll get scrapped, but for now I think to the degree you suggested might be out of the scope of this and potentially something we could do as we add more areas.
I'd hate for players to be upset because they want to unpractice Hosenka or learn Hosenka, but they have to spend 40 minutes going to trainer X.
Yokichi wrote:
Love Iron Body. I think its a very good idea, but NEVER breaking?? Would rather have only criticals and specific skills damage your body. Like Solfege or Throw.
I want MP to feel weighty and useful. I could see a lot of people picking up this ability, and that is sort of why I proposed it as is. I want every skill to be valuable and feel like it truly deserves to be here.
Yokichi wrote:
I dislike Chidori and Rasengan being added. I feel those skills should never just be POOF learned, as Sasuke took 1 month to learn Chidori from Kakashi, and Naruto took a week and a bit (think it was 9 days..? Not sure) from Jiraiya. And would these skills take up a practice point as well or are they a "bonus" skill? Would rather have these skills earned through a quest line and at the end costing 2 practice points instead of one.
They'd take only MP to learn. Honestly, Shuuren and Handseal sort of act as the 'learning' phase. You'd still need to use Handeal to raise them, which for most skills represents day/weeks/months in-game time. I think ultimately, there will be people who always want these very high profile skills (just look at how many covers for Naruto merch have Naruto doing Rasengan or Sasuke doing Chidori). Also, I think there might be parts of the game where we have to take some creative liberty just because we're a game.
What I want to avoid is making any one skill so great, if you have it, you're a god. Chidori and Rasengan are going to be powerful because they are Myth skills, but not unbeatable. Also, poorly used they will be no better than just not having them in the first place. That is the goal.
Yokichi wrote:
I knew this day would come eventually. FINALLY we are THINKING about dojutsu.
I honestly forgot about the guy with the implant Byakugan, so I might add it in, too. However, a lot of these skills are setup so you'd have to use Legacy at least once to really get them or be maxed or near maxed and have nothing else. I think that is a fair trade and will balance out upper levels. If you want Sharingan and don't want to legacy, then you'll be at least level 250 before you can get it. If you want the Implant Sharingan, it'd be 200.
I sort of feel your underlying sentiment, and I don't want to see an army of Sharingan users walking around the game, however...I think with my current setup we won't see that. There will always be people wanting those skills, but with this setup few will get them and I see most people choosing to branch out instead.
Yokichi wrote:
Unleash is a nice idea, but I don't want all those Jinchuuriki kind of players.
My myth list is really, not super fleshed out and some of them are still very, very rough ideas. This is one of those rough ideas I had. Naruto has shown you can directly embed chakra into people. I have been thinking of a way to do Jinchuuriki (don't want to talk about this now or derail this convo so I'll leave it at that). However, this wouldn't be Jinchuuriki players, but more like the filler character who had some Bijyuu chakra sealed inside him.
I'm not insanely sold on any myth idea, so not everything is going to make it in or make it in like it is described here. I could easily see this being scrapped or adjusted.
Yokichi wrote:
Ok. Eight Gates.
The idea behind this would be basically able to open gates to provide boosts to yourself, the trade-off being it'd sap your health and body. So, like regenerate exchanges chakra to health, this would exchange health for chakra and stamina. Every time you opened a gate, you'd be just be increasing how much health drain for how much chakra/stamina boost, however there would also be some buffs to some statrs probably (dex and str, maybe?).
Hakai wrote:
I think you should be able to combine two of the eye Dōjutsu if you get them implanted, but not get all three and not get them at their full level.
Doing this and then being able to mix and match bonuses from two implanted eyes could be an interesting way to add more customization options, I know it's unlikely many people would ever get all three anyway
I wasn't going to put any limits on learning them, just if you had the MP. Not from a 'logical' perspective of making things work realistically, but just because of the time investment to even do this sort of thing is massive. If you play the game for 3,000 hours to get Byakugan, Sharingan and Rinnegan you should be allowed to...that said, lettng them all be active at once? I think that that shouldn't be possible or even if it is it'd cost so much that you'd probably go 'poof' instantly from that drain.
We can talk about this more and more, and see people's perspective. I do think some artistic liberty has to be taken, or else things will never be implemented because they'll take forever to do.
Isamu wrote:
@Gatz:
You sort of nailed my thoughts on everything. It is obvious you have played the game wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much, because we're starting to think too similarly.
Isamu wrote:
Have tiered practices and trains: 1MP = 3pr/5tr, 2MP= 7pr/12tr, etc.
I could be game for that. I didn't see the conversion as a skill you could only learn once and be done, but just like how ability points can be converted.
Isamu wrote:
Eight Gates: first 4 for 3MP, each one there after is 1MP extra.
Hrm, I'll think about it. Read what I put above about the eight gates and see if that might answer this or prompt more questions.
And I think I've answered in some shape or form everyone's questions, comments and concerns. I think I sprained a finger doing it...but by God I did it. Hopefully I can stay up on this topic more as posts are added.
Post 7: Ichiro · 2012-02-10 19:22 UTC
Gatz wrote:
Okay, a -lot -of posts happened on this...so... I am going to go one by one and so this will be very stream of conscious. Fore-warning, some responses will be a 'wait and see,' for now.
Hakai wrote:
Will these skills carry over on a Legacy character
They would not. However, after doing legacy, you'd gain more Myth points the next go-around.
So....if I bought sharingan, then did Legacy and remortted....I would no longer have sharingan? Would I get those points back? Would they just be gone forever but I would be gaining double because of legacy?
Also, would unused MP continue to accrue when you Legacy? (i.e. I don't use any, legacy, get to 150...now I have 7? or only 2?)
Post 8: Gatz · 2012-02-10 20:01 UTC
Ichiro wrote:
So....if I bought sharingan, then did Legacy and remortted....I would no longer have sharingan? Would I get those points back? Would they just be gone forever but I would be gaining double because of legacy?
Also, would unused MP continue to accrue when you Legacy? (i.e. I don't use any, legacy, get to 150...now I have 7? or only 2?)
You'd lose it all. You start at level 1.
Post 9: Yokichi · 2012-02-10 23:09 UTC
So if you get 1 MP at level 300, and your one of those people who will remort EVERY time then that point will become unused. Maybe if you get one at 50 instead then they can look forward for something every 50 levels, 1MP or remort at 300. Just an idea.
If you want to have multiple dojutsu (as some in the series does) then thats fine. But I would rather have only one active at a time to force the player to make a choice.
I think if you remort you shouldn't get double the amount of MP. I think you should add 1 MP/number of times you have remorted. And if we do get double the amount of MP, do we get 2 at 100, 150, etc? or will it be spaced out at every 25 levels instead? And what about the 3rd remort? How will you space it then? Every 15 levels? Will it always start at 100 to gain MP or will you slowly get lower as the amount of remorts increases?
Even if you have the add X trains as an option, I would like an option for double LSC gain.
So you can only gain Chidori/Rasengan/Sharingan/etc once right? What about the trains/practices? I assume you will be able to get them multiple times, but how over powered would you be if you remorted lets say...4 times now? Yes thats alot of time to be spending getting to level 300, but each time is easier than the last. Spend 4 points on Sharingan at 100, then at 150 you spend 4 points on trains...now thats 20(!!) trains at ONE level. This is assuming that you will just get an increasing amount of MP at once, and not spread out. This is just what I would do personally...if I ever got to that point.
Now, back to my favorite Myth: Iron Body. I would like to propose a tweak to it. You spend 1MP on Iron Body, which will decrease the amount of damage your body takes (decrease it by 75% or so) and if you purchase it again it completely prevents your body from breaking OR make it so you only get damaged from criticals and specific skills ONLY (really trying to push this idea, I WANT MORE OPINIONS ON IT OR IF I'M JUST WASTING MY TIME). I would really like a decrease in damage to your body over a flat out never damaged, cause then the whole stat-guy will be useless. Maybe we should make skill trees for this too? Like having Iron Body (1MP) --> Steel Body (1MP) or Chidori (2MP) --> Raikiri (2MP) or Rasengan (2MP) --> Rasenshuriken (3MP).
I thought I read somewhere about an element system coming soon...from the meeting perhaps? I'm currious if you are going to implement that one first, as Chidori is a Lightning Release after all.
Post 10: Gatz · 2012-02-11 03:28 UTC
Yokichi wrote:
I think if you remort you shouldn't get double the amount of MP. I think you should add 1 MP/number of times you have remorted. And if we do get double the amount of MP, do we get 2 at 100, 150, etc? or will it be spaced out at every 25 levels instead? And what about the 3rd remort? How will you space it then? Every 15 levels? Will it always start at 100 to gain MP or will you slowly get lower as the amount of remorts increases?
It'd probably be the same levels, but 1 + Amount time Used Legacy.
Yokichi wrote:
how over powered would you be if you remorted lets say...4 times now?
That is still sinking probably 1-2k hours into the game. I've had Sharingan and Byakugan in rough form since NarutoMUD launched, and even when tinkering with it, it was balanced enough to not be insta-wins. Even if someone gets all the skills in the game they shouldn't be unbeatable.
Like anything in the game, adjustments will have to happen. Myth skills each need to be really amazing and cool, but not godly.
Yokichi wrote:
Even if you have the add X trains as an option, I would like an option for double LSC gain.
I think that makes sense.
Yokichi wrote:
I thought I read somewhere about an element system coming soon
Yeah, check the post from the MUD Meeting that happened last week.
Post 11: Gatz · 2012-02-11 19:37 UTC
Edited my first post to adjust the myth skill list.
Post 12: Hazamishi · 2012-02-16 00:55 UTC
I was wondering what your opinions of the kekkei genkai elemental combinations (Wood, Boil, Lava, Dust, Ice, etc.), Gatz. I think that the Myth system could open the door for that sort of stuff (later on, after the more important stuff gets ironed out, since it would mostly just be new skills and boosts to elemental affinities).
Post 13: Gatz · 2012-02-16 02:38 UTC
Hazamishi wrote:
I was wondering what your opinions of the kekkei genkai elemental combinations (Wood, Boil, Lava, Dust, Ice, etc.)
Hrm...would you spend get 1 MP than spend 1 MP to get a skill with that element?
Like
1 MP - Wood element
1 MP - Wood Prison
1 MP- Wood...Spike I dunno.
Post 14: Hazamishi · 2012-02-16 02:44 UTC
I was actually thinking of something along the lines of, you spend anywhere from 3 to 5 MP and you unlock an entire skill tree of the release you buy or something.
Post 15: Gatz · 2012-02-16 02:48 UTC
Hazamishi wrote:
I was actually thinking of something along the lines of, you spend anywhere from 3 to 5 MP and you unlock an entire skill tree of the release you buy or something.
Hrm, that sounds cool...but I don't think I'd be able to put in enough skills to warrent a full tree.
Post 16: Hazamishi · 2012-02-16 03:22 UTC
Ah... Yeah, I feel you on that, I guess. Some of them have a lot of skills and some of them don't. Maybe you way would be best for now, until we see what kind of stuff comes out in the story or something.
Post 17: Hazamishi · 2012-02-18 00:45 UTC
Another addition to the myth goodie list: cursed seals.
Each seal could hold a certain stat increase, with level 1 release increasing the stat by 5, level 2 increasing it by 10. The seals of heaven and earth would be the two most expensive ones, and would give an increase over more than one stat. Heaven being the strongest, so in level 1 you get +3 to each stat, and in level 2 you get +5 to each? Earth gives +2 in level 1, +4 in level 2?
That's just a rough example, and would most likely be really really overpowered, but I figured it could get your mind working.
Edit: Level 2 activation could murder your mental state and eventually force you out of it and hit your hp/stam/chakra hard.
Post 18: Isamu · 2012-02-23 01:16 UTC
I'm still of the opinion that you should at least start with your old MP if you Legacy your character. I don't like the idea of kids running around with sharingan or byakugan, but you could just limit purchasing Mythic Abilities to 1 or 2 MP costs, since Journeyman, Tensai, and Iron Body are ideally for lower level characters. Once I got to level 125 or so, I didn't have to care about broken bones, so Iron Body wouldn't have been a good choice for my character when he's older, but at low levels, broken bones meant so much more. It doesn't make sense to force a Legacy Character to get back up to level 100 in order to get some of the Mythic Abilities. You could even make it so that characters can only make one purchase per 50 levels, or they can only RP into getting a Mythic Ability early, that way you won't have people abusing the system.
@Hazamishi:
Cursed Seal always seemed like the final third of the power ups (Jinchuuriki/Unleash and Eight Gates being the other two). I'm all for being able to get those, and you would have to purchase level 2 as well. I would say, have the different seals give bonuses to different stat combinations. Since people will probably just get whatever makes them strongest, you'd have to make each one about the same for different reasons. Earth and Heaven seals might require certain stat requirements in order to get them. As for the price, level 1 could be a 2 MP cost, and level 2 should be the same so that the total cost is 4, equivalent to unleash and some of the Eight Gates.
Post 19: Ichiro · 2012-02-23 14:07 UTC
I sort of agree with Isamu. Except I'm of the opinion that you should be able to buy whatever you want with your MP whenever (although, I do like the idea of limiting purchases to once every 25 or 50 levels or something until your past level 100). I think it would be fine for byakugan and sharingan to be in kids, especially since it makes more sense for people to awaken that at a young age. I'm also of the opinion, however, that those sorts of things should have some different stages/levels that you can unlock based on level/MP spent (or both).
Letting people purchase intermittently would prevent players from going "Bam, I bought a bunch of practices at level one and got a whoooooole bunch of jutsu I shouldn't have already ^_^". It would still allow people to start with some extra practices or not break their arms constantly or be able to learn things easier without really breaking anything.
Post 20: Gatz · 2012-02-23 15:11 UTC
Hrm, I think if I let Myth carry over on a Legacy, I'd not let Legacy affect how many MP were gained go up because of Legacy, otherwise it makes it a lot easier to gain very high tiered Myth abilities. If I let any Myth carry over, I'd like all of it carry over, otherwise everyone is just going to dump their points to the low tier stuff anyways.
As planned now, Legacy would double the amount of MP gained, so level 100 would be 2 myth points, instead of 1, etc. However, if everyone is really anti-losing Myth abilities, then I'd keep it so Legacy has no affect on MP at all and you just reset at level 1 with all your MP/Myth stuff intact but you gain no extra MP.
Post 21: Ichiro · 2012-02-23 15:21 UTC
Oh, right. That was the other thing I wanted to mention. Personally, I'd rather just get 5 MP each go and not have the number increased by Legacy (although maybe have your selections reset when you Legacy, but then you can just re-spend them). It should still work out to be the same number of MP.
Post 22: Gatz · 2012-02-23 17:03 UTC
Ichiro wrote:
Oh, right. That was the other thing I wanted to mention. Personally, I'd rather just get 5 MP each go and not have the number increased by Legacy (although maybe have your selections reset when you Legacy, but then you can just re-spend them). It should still work out to be the same number of MP.
I think this is slowly beginning to back-peddle what the point of Legacy is. It isn't just to reset you to level 1 with everything and re-level. It is a total reset, but having perks the second go-around. A level 1 player who is new and a level 1 player who just used legacy shouldn't be at vastly, vastly different power. Now, obviously the experienced player will have more knowledge and other perks that came form Legacy, but we're slowly getting into the point where Legacy does nothing more than reset you to level 1 and nothing else.
Using Legacy should have some risk, to it. It can't be pure reward. People will already get the bonus practices and trains. However, this is sounding like nerfing it a bit and leaving very little reason not to use Legacy, which I don't want happening.
Post 23: Ichiro · 2012-02-23 20:18 UTC
Hrmm...well, that makes sense. The main thing for me is that I know some people will want to RP some things (like myself and having sharingan at various stages). While it's possible that I'll get all the way to level 200 without anyone wanting to RP with me....that's pretty unlikely, and the way it is right now, I'd have to get to legacy 5 before I can get something like sharingan at even level 100.
Post 24: Gatz · 2012-02-23 20:27 UTC
Ichiro wrote:
Hrmm...well, that makes sense. The main thing for me is that I know some people will want to RP some things (like myself and having sharingan at various stages). While it's possible that I'll get all the way to level 200 without anyone wanting to RP with me....that's pretty unlikely, and the way it is right now, I'd have to get to legacy 5 before I can get something like sharingan at even level 100.
Ah, I get what you're saying, since the first Legacy point hits at level 100, it sort of cuts you off from beginning with it, a la an Obito-esque character.
Post 25: Ichiro · 2012-02-23 23:40 UTC
Exactly. And for the first Legacy, it wouldn't even be attainable it until level 200. Plus, if MP carried over you could have people who incrementally buy better versions of things like that (which I think could be an interesting way of doing byakugan/sharingan/eight gates/etc.) [I'll post another topic on my ideas on that soon].
Post 26: Gatz · 2012-02-24 22:59 UTC
Ichiro wrote:
Exactly. And for the first Legacy, it wouldn't even be attainable it until level 200. Plus, if MP carried over you could have people who incrementally buy better versions of things like that (which I think could be an interesting way of doing byakugan/sharingan/eight gates/etc.) [I'll post another topic on my ideas on that soon].
How about a more radical idea. When you use Legacy, you can choose to pick a 'legacy skill', which is Sharingan/Byakugan/etc. It'd be the lowest power tier of it, but you could use MP to bulk it up. So, for example:
Implant Sharingan - Immediately acts like Sharingan level 3, but the chakra cost is doubled.
Implant Byakugan - Immediately acts like Byakugan level 2, but the chakra cost is doubled.
Sharingan (Base) - Only one tomoe, small affect
Byakugan (Base) - Small affect.
Eight Gates (Base) - Can only open 1 gate
Curse Seal (Base) - Can't control it's release, auto-activites when low on Chakra/Stamina/Health???
Whatever else....
For now, does this sound reasonable? Then MP could be used to buy upgrades to these skills. I think these skills could still be buyable via MP normally, but maybe it is that when you Legacy, you pick a Myth skill that can cost up to the total amount of MP you have -ever- had and that sticks with your character permanently. Then, next Legacy, you could pick another skill, and that'd be added in additionally to your other Legacy skill.
So,
Legacy 1 - Pick 1 Myth skill to roll with (Skill can cost up to 5 MP)
Legacy 2 - Pick 1 Myth skill (Skill can cost up to 10 MP), the old Myth skill picked on the first Legacy rolls with it too for a total of 2
Legacy 3 - Pick 1 Myth skill (Skill can cost up to 15 MP), the old Myth skills previous pick rolled
Post 27: Gatz · 2012-02-29 19:54 UTC
I've been heavily thinking about this and I think we have gotten -way- too complex. This has turned from a relatively straight-forward system to one that'll need 4 hours to explain. I think to cover what people want and make things not be ridiculous to code and then take 2 years to dev, Myth/Legacy should boil down to this:
Every 100 levels, you get 1 Myth Point, the points are permanent and anything you spend with them are permanent. When you Legacy, you are given another point immediately. Legacy won't raise the amount of MP gained.
The flow would be:
Level -- MP
100 -- 1
200 -- 2
300 -- 3
Legacy- 4
100 -- 5
200 -- 6
300 -- 7
Legacy- 8
etc
With this scheme, you'd have to use Legacy once to get the real Sharingan, or your first play-through at level 300 you could get the Implant Sharingan. If you used MP to convert to practices or trains, upon using Legacy, you'd lose skills/stat points but be given back the actual practices and trains.
I think this is very, very straightforward and gives a bit of a incentive to use Legacy, but not one that is -so- great that tons of people do it and potential get upset and quit. Also, keeping your Myth Skills will just help you get past those first 50 levels.
As a party bonus, with this scheme...it is so straight-forward I could more easily imp it without too much trouble.
Post 28: Ichiro · 2012-02-29 22:01 UTC
This is basically what I thought you were going to do in the first place when you originally suggested it. :P
Post 29: Isamu · 2012-03-01 20:49 UTC
I like this as well. Would there be a way to use RPPs to remove a Mythic Purchase?
Post 30: Gatz · 2012-03-01 21:42 UTC
Isamu wrote:
I like this as well. Would there be a way to use RPPs to remove a Mythic Purchase?
Most likely.
Post 31: Gatz · 2012-03-15 16:13 UTC
Updated the first post to be more accurate, based on our discussions and also give players a head's up for when they can see the first wave of skills go in. I've put priority to the lower costing skills to let the majority of players get access to stuff right off the bat. Then, over time, I'll chip away at the higher tiered skills to let the older players have access to the super cool stuff like Sharingan, Byakugan and Rinnegan.
Post 32: Gaikotsu · 2012-03-16 05:29 UTC
Legacy Genes - Would increase the gains given by stat point increases. This myth skill would give players Uzumaki Naruto/Kushina-esque vitality (hp/stamina/chakra[not 9-tails enhanced versions, of course]). Cost 5+(?) MP
How I'm thinking of it working, and the rates could possibly be higher, since you'd have to remort and get to 200 again(?) which is a significant task, without taking any of the other myth skills:
normal hp/chakra/stamina gain rate * .1 (increases between 6-10)
(normal hp/chakra/stamina gain rate * .1) * .2 (increases between 11-20)
(normal hp/chakra/stamina gain rate * .3) * .2 (increases between 21-30)
(normal hp/chakra/stamina gain rate * .5) * .05 (increases 30+)
I'm not sure if that really makes sense, but I think it might... maybe. Possibly. Math is not my forte. :? Thoughts now?
(Fixed?)
Post 33: Gatz · 2012-03-16 15:41 UTC
Gaikotsu wrote:
Legacy Genes - Would increase the gains given by stat point increases. This myth skill would give players Uzumaki Naruto/Kushina-esque vitality (hp/stamina/chakra[not 9-tails enhanced versions, of course]). Cost 5+(?) MP
How I'm thinking of it working, and the rates could possibly be higher, since you'd have to remort and get to 200 again(?) which is a significant task, without taking any of the other myth skills:
normal hp/chakra/stamina gain rate * .1 (increases between 6-10)
(normal hp/chakra/stamina gain rate * .1) * .2 (increases between 11-20)
(normal hp/chakra/stamina gain rate * .3) * .2 (increases between 21-30)
(normal hp/chakra/stamina gain rate * .5) * .05 (increases 30+)I'm not sure if that really makes sense, but I think it might... maybe. Possibly. Math is not my forte. :? Thoughts now?
(Fixed?)
Ah, so these seem like skills that boost how much Health, Chakra, Stamina is gained for your stats?
Post 34: Gaikotsu · 2012-03-16 18:42 UTC
In a nutshell, yes.
I think another way to go about it could be:
Legacy genes (stamina) 2MP - str/dex stamina gains would be increased by certain percentages within the aforementioned ranges (6-10, 11-20, 21-30, 31+)
Legacy genes (chakra) 2MP - int/con chakra gains would be increased by certain percentages within the aforementioned ranges (6-10, 11-20, 21-30, 31+)
Legacy genes (health) 2MP - str/cha/lck gains would be increased by certain percentages within the aforementioned ranges (6-10, 11-20, 21-30, 31+)
Edit to clarify, if anyone was needing an explanation of how my hamster in a wheel was working...
[Stat range]|[Percent increased]
6-10 | +10%
11-20 | +30% (20%+10%)
21-30 | +50% (20%+20%+10%)
31+ | +55% (5%+20%+20%+10%)
Post 35: Ichiro · 2012-03-17 07:22 UTC
Will journeyman allow us to get to 100% on foreign skills with only 20 wis? or will that still be a distinction?
Post 36: Gatz · 2012-03-17 16:34 UTC
Ichiro wrote:
Will journeyman allow us to get to 100% on foreign skills with only 20 wis? or will that still be a distinction?
100%, Essentially Journeyman, from a skill perspective, makes you 'all villlages'.
Post 37: Yokichi · 2012-03-17 18:34 UTC
If you chose the 5 practices or 10 trains and then Legacy, would it just give you those at the beginning? Or would it just add on to the 10 practices and 60 (50?) trains, requiring you to level to gain them all back? Or do you just lose them all together when you Legacy?
Post 38: Gatz · 2012-03-17 18:56 UTC
Yokichi wrote:
If you chose the 5 practices or 10 trains and then Legacy, would it just give you those at the beginning? Or would it just add on to the 10 practices and 60 (50?) trains, requiring you to level to gain them all back? Or do you just lose them all together when you Legacy?
You'd gain the them back immediately, so you'd start with the extra practices and trains right off the bat.
Post 39: Gatz · 2012-03-20 13:47 UTC
I didn't quite hit my mark of yesterday, but I did make a lot of headway. I've updated the first post to show which things are ready to roll. I was stuck in the middle of converting Chidori when I crashed (busy day). Welp, today will probably be the launch day once Chidori is ready and then maybe 2 passives, for a total of 5 Myth skills.
I'm hoping by week's end I can have summoning ready to go, too.
Post 40: Miyamoto · 2014-04-20 07:19 UTC
Was also wondering if this stuff went in, because it also sounds awesome. Specifically sharingan, byakugan, eight gates or any of the ones that didn't say ready next to them.