The Reason Trains Went From 75 to 50 and More

[Gatz]

As some of you have already noticed, recently, I've made a change to the amount of stats earned by players. I reduced it from 75 to 50. The only people affected are new players, and so in order to prevent a bitter taste in everyone's mouth, I want to explain why this happened, why it needed to happen and hopefully convince you all that this will be an overall positive thing because of it.

First, let me explain the reason why it was 75 to begin with. Simply put, the goal was to make it so all stats could be around 15-16 or higher or lower based on what you wanted. That way, if you wanted to be hit harder, you invest in more strength at the expensive of say intelligence. Very basic game concept. 75 felt like it was more than enough to provide enough variety to players, and to give an interesting game experience. However, over the years, my position has been changing.

Why did it change? Well, the Living Stat Code (LSC) was the driving force. I love the idea behind LSC, and the original idea behind it I feel is one of those situations of good on paper, bad in practice. So, what went wrong? Well, I intended to make LSC difficult, and optional. The idea behind it was that players could invest time in making their stats go even higher, but it'd be a time sink. However, I started to see a problem, which is common, and that is players getting roped into something they feel is necessary no matter how optional it is, just because it provides them a benefit. I'm not criticizing the mentality, because I fall victim to it. Why wouldn't someone want to do something to make them even greater?

As many of you know, it isn't the exception to use LSC to train your stats, it is the norm. This goes against my design of the system and the purpose of it. Some players, if not all, will say it -has- to be done to even be able to compete at higher levels. So, now, training points are now just used to make using LSC easier, rather than making LSC optional. My efforts to push more towards the 'optional' haven't been very successful, and I very much know some players avoid stat training until later in the game but inevitably they do it, many begrudgingly.

LSC was meant to be difficult, slow and obnoxious. The original design was to make it takes hours to train a stat up, and make it so if you want to stay uber it requires maintenance. When I initially implemented this on Cowboy Bebop: Space Cowboy, which is the MUD I coded on before NM, it was non-optional and the only way to train. Players were angry. They hated it being required, they hated the fact that it could drop and the initial implementation of it wasn't particularly very good, NM's is a lot kinder. A lot of people quit CB:SC when I implemented it and a lot of people just came on to insult me and the MUD. The early days of LSC were rough, and I think CB:SC might have even removed it now.

So, the astute reader will probably ask the very good question, “Why in the world would you want to keep this system?” Frankly, I think it is great in concept and can work. I believe LSC 3.0 is the answer. However, this system hasn't received a lot of love because the core idea of difficult, frustrating and optional, but now the system, in my eyes, has become difficult, frustrating and required. Even now, though, I feel like it isn't far from the ideal.

So, this is a long way of saying, LSC 3.0 will be happening. LSC will be getting a thorough pass over and the core idea, or mentality, will change. With 50 trains, it helps support this idea. It still lets low level players avoid LSC for awhile, and depending on build possibly forever. However, now when you want to do it, they'll be made to be a lot more fun and interesting. I still will probably keep many of the auto-commands, but they'll be re-worked a bit. I've noticed some people will prefer being lazy and using the auto-commands, but they'll never be as fast as using the mini-game like commands like Shadow Box and Sudoku.

Next, items have been slowly getting rolling changes. Almost all the equipment in the game has been getting setup to support layers. Also some equipment is getting setup to have upgrade branches. As such, some of their ACes are lowering or any special mods getting tweaked because of this. However, with this setup, it is possible, in theory it is possibly to raise stats much higher than now via items.

Lastly, the Race to Level 300 is going to be exposing an exciting new game play feature for everyone. This isn't the time to go into full detail, but the winner will be able to not only experience it first but get bonuses for this new game feature. It will add a totally new way to further distance shinobi from each other and I think add an exciting amount of replayability to the game. Discussion of this will happen later, probably around the time someone hits level 290.

I hope no one is still sitting at this point and is feeling anything but hope and excitement. I truly feel like the net gain outweighs the net loss. For the people who have 75 trains, they won't get those removed, but it will balance out eventually so that people with 50 trains are on the same plain as those with 75. Truthfully, with LSC, things can even out. For the items, these changes affect all new items and existing items players have won't be affected. Which will reflect our balancing guidelines where items without the ability to be layered will be better than an item that can be layered.

So, where does this leave everyone? Well, you can expecting LSC to improve, making it a lot more fun and exciting. You can expect a lot of more interesting items and item combinations. You can also expect something cool to come about from the Race to Level 300. I hope you all are as excited as I am, and if you have any more questions, I'll try to answer them as best as I can. The only questions I won't take are related to the Race to Level 300's end prize, as that will be a big reveal later.

[Yuuta]

I hope no one is still sitting at this point and is feeling anything but hope and excitement. I truly feel like the net gain outweighs the net loss. For the people who have 75 trains, they won't get those removed, but it will balance out eventually so that people with 50 trains are on the same plain as those with 75. Truthfully, with LSC, things can even out. For the items, these changes affect all new items and existing items players have won't be affected. Which will reflect our balancing guidelines where items without the ability to be layered will be better than an item that can be layered.

Might I ask how it is you plan to make people with 50 trains similar in power to somebody with 75 trains? As it stands, unless you plan to make stats have little impact on the game, the difference between 50 points and 75 points is staggering.

There are seven different stats and all of them are level 5 at the beginning, which comes out to be 35 points given to you free of charge.

35 + 50 = 85
35 + 75 = 110

Those who retain 75 training points very nearly have 30% more stats than those who do not.

15-16 or higher or lower based on what you wanted

If we were to allocate the points evenly, with 50 trains, we get approximately 7 points per stat.

The average is now 12.

With a maximum cap of 30, 12 is abysmal *but*, this could very well be the intention (and I can see this happening) -- in order to reach that godly 30, you have to sacrifice dearly. I can understand that. I can sympathize with the move towards stat allocation behaving more like a sacrifice game -- I'm all for it.

What I don't understand is how you plan to both make stats viable in the game in comparison to other methods (i.e., equipment) without breaking the game based on your decision to allow people to keep their 75 trains. If you plan to make stats less important in the grand scheme of things, then you're simply reducing the impact and, in so doing, the customizability afforded to the player with said stats. If you plan to retain the influence afforded by stats, then the 30% bonus afforded to others over new players will just break things.

To put it into an LSC perspective, the average stat is now 12 with 50 points whereas the average stat with 75 was about 15-16. This means that all non-new characters have effectively LSC'd all of their stats for a 3-4 point bonus. All of their stats. 3-4 point bonus. Permanently.

I'm very skeptical in how this would end up working.

[Giyoku]

Sadly, I'm not excited.

None of my friends are excited.

I'd be hard-pressed into believing any player who has a serious interest in this game and building up a playerbase is excited.

Why? Because you went about this in a poor way. But this is just my opinion being voiced here, and though you'll likely not convince me of changing it, i'll at least try to explain why and offer some suggestions to not let this happen in the future.


First, the no announcement thing is just poor development practice. You note all kinds of changes on the 'changes' board, regardless of how tiny they are, but don't put something up like this? The only answer you provided is.. because I was going to do it later? You just don't do this, period. It only reads as laziness. The only cases in which a change can go unannounced that has an immediate and lasting impact on players, especially new, is some kind of bug or error that causes problems or can be exploited, and even then that's only to say fix the problem -then- post soon afterward so players can be aware and report back any other issues.

Further, your own admins didn't seem to know what was going on. The worse response? We're in alpha. We could have a pwipe at any time. if this is true, please, please, please update your helpfiles on this. It states that pwipes will only occur under very specific circumstances. So why is an immortal answering a question such as this code change in such a manner?

Second, you've not explained why doing it this way is better than any of the alternatives. Maybe you don't think you need to do this, and I would agree with you if you also thought building your playerbase was second to development. If it is, tell us, and we'll be relieved to leave the game until such a time that it is ready. Currently, your listing on at least one site claims that you're ready for players. This may seem mean spirited, but if you aren't ready, you aren't ready and it's better to do this than to give new players a bad experience that will leave them never wanting more.

When I read your response to my post, I immediately thought to myself.. okay, so why not change the stats -after- all these supposed changes?

Breaking it down:

LSC - You already have some LSC 3.0, if I am understanding what you're referring to (chakramold / shadowbox). So why are you changing trains -now-? Some others will be 'slightly reworked' but I imagine still work very similarly for a player. Further down in your response, you tell us that those who got 25 extra trains will be more or less balanced with the new LSC system. If this is true, why did it matter to lower them now, or at all? I simply don't believe you're correct in this statement. With the same effort, they'll be 25 points higher, period. This does not excite me.

Items - I'm not even sure how layering items has anything to do with this, except to think that you're basically saying you're giving us more slots for more gear, which will in turn, I assume, means gear that gives stats will give you -more- stats. Again, those who already have the extra trains can potentially have the same gear. To me, this is not a reason why stats absolutely -needed- to be lowered, and again, why did it need to happen before work has even begun to really know how much of a difference it will make?

You've a race to some level that you don't even think is worth discussing until -someone- is level 290. It doesn't make me excited, how could it? You said replayability so my only guess is some kind of remort/releveling system. After 300 levels I get to level more? That's the opposite of exciting. Again, I'm just making an inference, but it's all you gave me. Why bother at all. Even worse? You just put every new player at a disadvantage in this so-called race to 300, even -if- things will eventually somehow balance out, it isn't balanced now, when the contest is running.

I feel like maybe i'm being a little harsh, and while i've tried to be as constructive as possible, but I cannot help but feel like this type of continued development practice will only cause players to leave.

[Saikou]

If you really don't understand why a player may be unhappy that another player gets 25 more trains... it is clear you have no idea what you're doing here.

I'm sorry. I gave your game a solid shot; I tried to provide at least a little input... but I'm out. Call this the (not so little) straw that broke my back.

Best of luck to you guys. Maybe in 6 more years when you start calling yourselves Beta or something I'll give you another go.

[Gatz]

Well, let me say a couple things. First off, thanks for posting guys. You have no idea how honored it makes me that you guys like NM enough to post such well thought out responses. Let me go by saying I'm sorry I did this in such a lame way, there is no good excuses to make so I won't make them. I don't think there is any way to truly make you guys feel like you aren't losing something, because in a way you are. However. let me answer some specific questions and hopefully you'll stick around for a at least a little bit longer.

Why? Because you went about this in a poor way. But this is just my opinion being voiced here, and though you'll likely not convince me of changing it, i'll at least try to explain why and offer some suggestions to not let this happen in the future.

Sorry. I could have handled this better. Thanks for having the guts to be honest. A lot of players would have just typed 'quit' and said nothing, I respect you speaking up.

Further, your own admins didn't seem to know what was going on. The worse response? We're in alpha. We could have a pwipe at any time. if this is true, please, please, please update your helpfiles on this. It states that pwipes will only occur under very specific circumstances. So why is an immortal answering a question such as this code change in such a manner?

A pwipe is the last thing I want to do. However, in exchange for not pwiping, I take the right to make some legacy issues with older players. One such example is how existing players started at level 0 for Ningu. Also, occasionally if a bug occurs that favors a player, I might let them keep the bonus as a reward for reporting it, however those happen rarely enough not to become an issue. If a pwipe were to occur, I'd give everyone very ample notice. NM has had 1 pwipe in it's history and everyone had 1 months notice and the reason why it was happening and why it was unavoidable was noted.

So, don't worry about pwipes. The chance that will happen is very, very slim.

Second, you've not explained why doing it this way is better than any of the alternatives. Maybe you don't think you need to do this, and I would agree with you if you also thought building your playerbase was second to development. If it is, tell us, and we'll be relieved to leave the game until such a time that it is ready. Currently, your listing on at least one site claims that you're ready for players. This may seem mean spirited, but if you aren't ready, you aren't ready and it's better to do this than to give new players a bad experience that will leave them never wanting more.

One of the hardest things to do is make changes like these. It is always easing adding, but painful to take away. Don't think this was easy for me. NarutoMUD is a game that is meant for the enjoyment of players, but like a bonsai sometimes you have to carefully trim. However, looking forward and looking over the state of the average player I think it is a must. I hope you all can realize that, in the long run, this will add better balance to the game.

I feel like maybe i'm being a little harsh, and while i've tried to be as constructive as possible, but I cannot help but feel like this type of continued development practice will only cause players to leave.

It's okay, I totally understand. I think trying to do more drastic changes to balance like this can cause the player base to drop. So, with each change, I constantly have to weigh the cost versus gain. NarutoMUD is a little game, with a mostly niche audience, so every time we lose a player it hurts. However, I'm not going to pigeon hole myself into not balancing out the game. So, I'll continue to walk this tight rope and hope for the best, making sure each time I make a move like this it is done carefully and tastefully.

If the game was more PvP oriented, I'd 100% have pulled everyone's extra trains that had over 50. However, the game is more team oriented, but if enough players feel strongly about this then I'll definitely remove the extras. However, because of the nature of this system, if even after trying things out, if players feel like 50 is just too few, I'll raise the number until we can all agree it feels right. I want you all to feel like you have a say in this, despite my drunken despotism. Like I keep saying, your character is never broken, it is never too late. Even with this change, if we all think 50 is too few, it can be raised and people will gain what they're missing.

Thanks again for being so honest.

[Giyoku]

I can be brutally honest at times, but I appreciate that more than dancing around and brown nosing.

Thanks for the response.

[Ichiro]

I think the way it evens out in the long run is that LSC goes faster based on certain factors. The way I understand things, the primary factors are how high a stat is versus how high it could be. So, LSC's for people with fewer trains will go much faster than those with lots of trains until their stats start reaching a similar point.

I could be totally wrong though...

[Giyoku]

Now that we've both had time to take some merit from each others perspectives, I have a final thought.


What this really comes down to is, who does this really affect?

If what you are saying is true, and the game will eventually be balanced, the only people who are suffering from this change are new players who were already playing the game -and- under level 75 at the time of this change. In the grand scheme of things, this is such a trivial audience that I can understand why now is as good a time as any, as this small margin of players is who it would always affect regardless of the time it's implemented.

But you know what?

That's me, that's Zato, that's Saikou, I believe there are probably as many if not more (Kentaro? Naori? Yuuta?) but I cannot verify at this time. When you say that if it bothers enough people that you'll lower everyone elses stats, who else besides us should really have any say, and how many more people than what appears to be at least half need to complain before one of the proposed solutions is made?

[Gatz]

how many more people than what appears to be at least half need to complain before one of the proposed solutions is made?

Well, it isn't always a matter of raw numbers. A lot of changes or tweaks happen based on players making a good case. I usually run it by some people and get their take on it, and then make a decision. In this case, I have a couple technical hurdles before I can take away stats from people who have more than the current max. However, a good example, and one you might not be so upset about, involving tweaks is Hosenka. A player brought to my attention that they he thought Hosenka wasn't really setup well compared with a similar skill, so looking it over and talking with a few other people it really seemed like it needed a re-work, and it got one that I thought was good and a few players tested it and felt it was a good change, as well.

Not saying I take everything, but even 1 player's opinion matters to me. However, when I look at the game I do so from a bird's eye view of the current state of the game and the future, but as the game grows and gets more refined player's input is absolutely required to make sure we all stay on point, code wise and building wise. As most of the Immortals can tell you, they aren't just a bunch of 'yes' men, most of them came into being Immortals based on their desire to see NarutoMUD improve, and as mortals were very vocal about it, in fact if you know Hitoshi's mortal alt you can still find his posts on the forums where is very upfront about his views.

I never shy away from reviews or critiques, even from 1 player. So, while you may see your group as too little to make an impact, I view it as the perfect size to get an nice read on things. So keep posting here, keep looking things over. Never be shy to state your opinion. I honestly don't think every idea I have or every way I implement something is 'the best' it can ever be, but without feedback it is hard for me to realize issues. I still believe this is a good idea looking forward, and I believe the impact of this won't be as painful as you think.

[Giyoku]

So, while you may see your group as too little to make an impact, I view it as the perfect size to get an nice read on things.

Actually, the case I made above was pretty much the opposite of this. My position was that only a handful of us are affected, so we are the ones that should be providing feedback on this system, as it has no bearing on anyone else.

However, the game is more team oriented, but if enough players feel strongly about this then I'll definitely remove the extras.

Well, it isn't always a matter of raw numbers. A lot of changes or tweaks happen based on players making a good case.

If you think I am not making a good case that

A: The few people this is affecting -are- speaking out about it
B: They are the ones who should be voting or weighing in on this specific system
C: Enough of us are speaking out that it calls for the above action you said would be taken, to actually be taken

Then, we are at an impasse, and I politely agree to disagree

[Yuuta]

I believe there are probably as many if not more (Kentaro? Naori? Yuuta?) but I cannot verify at this time.

Correct. I am one of the people who will be facing the lowered stats.


GENKAI

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This skill means 'limit' in English. There are 3 total Genkai, each one
allows the user to train one statistic per Genkai from it's normal 20 to
25 using LSC commands. Kagirinai allows the user to train one statistic
from 25 to 30.

With a base stat of 5, you require 15 trains to get to 20. This equates to 45 trains. For the 25-30, you require another 5 trains.

This means, in order to get the most out of any of the Genkai, you must train those three stats exclusively.

Perhaps this is your goal and the reason for the specific 50 point limit? I'm not sure.

I think the way it evens out in the long run is that LSC goes faster based on certain factors. The way I understand things, the primary factors are how high a stat is versus how high it could be. So, LSC's for people with fewer trains will go much faster than those with lots of trains until their stats start reaching a similar point.

I could be totally wrong though...

This doesn't remove the cap of LSC's -- you can only LSC up to five points higher than the level afforded to the stat by trains, currently. This effectively means that new players have a lower LSC cap which, no matter how much easier it is to reach it, still restricts them in comparison to old players.

If the game was more PvP oriented, I'd 100% have pulled everyone's extra trains that had over 50. However, the game is more team oriented, but if enough players feel strongly about this then I'll definitely remove the extras. However, because of the nature of this system, if even after trying things out, if players feel like 50 is just too few, I'll raise the number until we can all agree it feels right. I want you all to feel like you have a say in this, despite my drunken despotism. Like I keep saying, your character is never broken, it is never too late. Even with this change, if we all think 50 is too few, it can be raised and people will gain what they're missing.

Sue me for being a perfectionist, but I don't have to have a direct PVP disadvantage to feel the sting of reduced combat efficiency. In the world of Naruto, your fighting ability can be a key component, and if old players are naturally favored to the new ones, this creates an artificial rift in power between the two for no apparent logical reason, a rift that isn't removed simply with experience or effort. How would it feel to have somebody who is smarter than me, stronger than me, and faster than me not because of any training or effort they put in on their part, but simply because they joined before the changes occurred? Even if I am not fighting them directly (which means the arena -- a fun pastime -- is out), seeing them be 100% better would be disheartening.

As I had said before, I don't necessarily mind the change from 75 to 50 trains as I see it as a step in the right direction in making the stat allocation far more of a sacrifice game than it currently is. That being the case, the biggest reason for my discomfort is the new rift in power between me and the old players that I will never be able to cross.

However, I'm not going to pigeon hole myself into not balancing out the game.

But that feels exactly like what has happened. The move to not affect older people feels either as if you are afraid they will leave if their stats suddenly got reduced or that you personally favor them over the new player crowd. If a move is made to make new players have 50 stats for *balance* reasons, then how is leaving other people with 75 stats fully balancing the game?

[Gatz]

Since you both have said a lot of similar things, I won't use quotes but answer generally. Players with over the max on stats, will have them reduced. Also, you can use LSC to raise a stat, if you wanted, from 5->30. However, when a stat hits 20, it can only go higher with Genkai or Kagirinai using LSC.

However, back to older players. What I meant with the PvP comment is that I didn't want to rush to the most obvious way to remove the offending trains, i.e. full re-spec. Just because that means their work they did with LSC would be ruined. However, this isn't to say it won't happen, it just means it'll probably happen this weekend after some playing around, to find the best way to do it.

So, older players wont hold any sort of raw advantage over you in the train department very soon. Again, with my PvP comment, I just meant that I felt a wait wasn't totally unacceptable. If the biggest concern here isn't the reduction of max stats, at least for now, but the fact that older players will have an advantage, then I hope this eases your mind a little.

[Yuuta]

Since you both have said a lot of similar things, I won't use quotes but answer generally. Players with over the max on stats, will have them reduced. Also, you can use LSC to raise a stat, if you wanted, from 5->30. However, when a stat hits 20, it can only go higher with Genkai or Kagirinai using LSC.

Ahhh, and here we have the crux of the change. I have no problem with LSC being required to gain proficiency in a stat. If a reduction in the LSC stat limit bonus (currently five) is removed, then this change will add more emphasis to such while allowing trains to be a useful substitute until time that you have enough chakra / endurance to efficiently LSC (as it is very consuming early on). I have no problem with the premise behind it.

However, back to older players. What I meant with the PvP comment is that I didn't want to rush to the most obvious way to remove the offending trains, i.e. full re-spec. Just because that means their work they did with LSC would be ruined. However, this isn't to say it won't happen, it just means it'll probably happen this weekend after some playing around, to find the best way to do it.

I don't understand this. Aren't trains and the bonuses from LSC separate? I know that they both have a hand in deciding your final stats, but I was under the impression that, for example, if I *untrained* a stat, the LSC would remain exactly how it was.

So, older players wont hold any sort of raw advantage over you in the train department very soon. Again, with my PvP comment, I just meant that I felt a wait wasn't totally unacceptable. If the biggest concern here isn't the reduction of max stats, at least for now, but the fact that older players will have an advantage, then I hope this eases your mind a little.

Yes, my mind is eased. As long as it is confirmed that there will not be an obvious rift in power between people for an arbitrary reason, then I, at least, am satisfied.

[Gatz]

I don't understand this. Aren't trains and the bonuses from LSC separate? I know that they both have a hand in deciding your final stats, but I was under the impression that, for example, if I *untrained* a stat, the LSC would remain exactly how it was.

This is the core issue, and I'll illustrate it through the example I found the problem in. Player X uses training points to raise strength to 20, however because he doesn't have Genkai, he can't raise it any further. Player Y uses LSC to train a stat to 20, he then uses training points to raise the stat to 20, the base stat, and now his strength is 30.

So, what I did was that if you Base Stat (5 + Trains) + LSC Stat was 20 or more, you can't sink another point into that stat. So, for this example, lets say Player X, again, has worked his tail off to get his strength to 30. If I forced the re-spec, his strength, without trains, would be 15. As it sits now, Player X would be cutoff from putting any more training points into strength once it hit 20 and they'd have to LSC from 20->30 again.

That is why I need to figure out something a bit better, so folks don't lose the work from 20-30, as that is a long road. So, I'm devising a way to make something make sense without totally ruining older players, since with this everyone with over 50 stats would be forced to 20 at the highest stat for them across the board until they tried to raise it. I know guys like Ichiro and Yamashita have spent tons and tons of time training their stats, so I don't want to render that null and void.

The only good news is that it is pretty easy to see who has too many, so whatever I decide to do, it'll be easy to see who needs them lowered. Also, if you have any ideas on how to do reduce stats for older players, feel free to throw them out, I'm open to suggestions.

[Yuuta]

So, what I did was that if you Base Stat (5 + Trains) + LSC Stat was 20 or more, you can't sink another point into that stat. So, for this example, lets say Player X, again, has worked his tail off to get his strength to 30. If I forced the re-spec, his strength, without trains, would be 15. As it sits now, Player X would be cutoff from putting any more training points into strength once it hit 20 and they'd have to LSC from 20->30 again.

The only good news is that it is pretty easy to see who has too many, so whatever I decide to do, it'll be easy to see who needs them lowered. Also, if you have any ideas on how to do reduce stats for older players, feel free to throw them out, I'm open to suggestions.

You did it wrong.

(Attempts to put training point into skill)

IF Base Stat (5 + Trains) is equal to 20
=return "You've already trained as much as you can in that stat!"
==endif

ELSE
=IF Base Stat (5 + Trains) + (LSC Stat) is equal to or greater than 25, check for Genkai_Kagarinai_Marker
==IF Genkai_Kagarinai_Marker = False (It is not possible to increase the cap, either due to lack of Genkai or there is already another stat using it)
===Set Base Stat = (current base stat) +1. Set LSC = (Current LSC) - 1
===Endif

(This will decrease your LSC as you increase your trains to keep you within the limit imposed upon you)

==ELSE
===IF Genkai_Kagarinai_Marker = True (You have Kagarinai and it is not currently increasing a different stat)
====Set Base Stat = (current base stat) +1.

ELSE
IF Base Stat (5 + Trains) + (LSC Stat) is equal to or greater than 20 but less than 25, check for Genkai_Marker_Ichi
IF Genkai_Marker_Ichi = True (You have Genkai_Ichi and it is not currently increasing a different stat)

Set base stat = (Current Base Stat) +1.

ELSE
IF Genkai_Marker_Ichi = False (it is not possible to increase the cap, either due to lack of Genkai or it has already been used on a different stat), check for Genkai_Marker_Ni
IF Genkai_Marker_Ni = True (You have Genkai_Ni and it is not currently increasing a different stat)

Set Base stat = (Current Base stat) +1

ELSE
Set Base Stat = (current Base stat) +1. Set LSC = (current LSC) - 1




(As each Genkai specifically only allows for one stat to go above 20, I am assuming you have some sort of marker to keep track of how many stats are currently above 20, to prevent stats from moving higher without the use of Genkai through LSC when they shouldn't).

A bit of the things are redundant (such as checking if something is false after it comes back as not being true), but makes it easier for an outside person to see the steps involved in what I'm suggesting.

This is very messy "code", though, as I don't know how the coding is specifically written. I just hope that I have communicated the basic premise well enough that you can understand what it is I am trying to say. =/


(Just put it through Notepad+)

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"Training Check"

IF Base Stat (5 + Trains) is equal to or greater than 20
   return "You've already trained as much as you can in that stat!"
ELSEIF Base Stat (5 + Trains) + (LSC Stat) is equal to or greater than 25
   IF Genkai_Kagarinai_Marker = True
      Set Base Stat = (current base stat) + 1
   ELSE
      set base Stat = (current base stat) + 1
      set LSC = (current LSC) - 1
   ENDIF
ELSEIF Base Stat (5 + Trains) + (LSC Stat) is equal to or greater than 20 but less than 25
   IF Genkai_Marker_Ichi = True
      Set Base Stat = (current base stat) + 1
   ELSEIF Genkai_Marker_Ni = True
      Set Base Stat = (current base stat) + 1
   ELSE
      Set Base Stat = (current base stat) + 1
      Set LSC = (current LSC) - 1
   ENDIF
ELSEIF Base Stat (5 + Trains) + (LSC Stat) is less than 20
   Set Base Stat = (current base stat) + 1
ENDIF

In this way, your LSC should decrease if and only if you do not have the Genkai necessary to increase them past the limit and will allow you to train regardless of your LSC progress.


EDIT: Edited the code again once doing some research on "end if". I hope it is more correct, now.
EDIT2: Cleaned some more.