NarutoMUD

Gatz wrote:

Saikou wrote:If you really don't understand why a player may be unhappy that another player gets 25 more trains... it is clear you have no idea what you're doing here.

I'm sorry. I gave your game a solid shot; I tried to provide at least a little input... but I'm out. Call this the (not so little) straw that broke my back.

Best of luck to you guys. Maybe in 6 more years when you start calling yourselves Beta or something I'll give you another go.

I had been ignoring this comment for awhile, but I figure I might as well take a stab at responding and, hopefully, not causing more of a stir.

...

The problem isn't that what you did was horrendously wrong and you should be ostracized from the world for ever conceiving it, but that what you did and *why* you chose to do such, as well as your future goals concerning it, were not properly communicated. The first post in this thread implied that, in order to fix things, you wanted to reduce everybody's stat total to 50 max... unless you happened to be an old-time player. Your reasoning was that the game wasn't PvP and, thus, it's not a high priority, or that you didn't want to ruin their hard work.

The problem is you didn't mention that this was an *undesirable outcome*. Judging from your posts afterward, you never wanted old-time players to *retain* the 25 stat points, but that you currently were unable to find a solution to the problem. Without fully understanding that you intended to, as soon as you were able, reduce the max stats on old-players to correspond to the new-players' cap, it was worded in such a way that you had no intention of doing so at all. Your following statements -- "It's not a PvP game, so it's not of great consequence" -- only seemed to further this point.

The result? The quote you are referring to is his response to the situation as he perceived it. As I perceived it, as well, until further discussion allowed me to understand what was going on.

Gatz wrote:It's taken me awhile to think on this guy and I think I'd prefer to keep sneak as a Genjutsu, but possibly add in hide to pair with it. However, I like the 'quick move' idea. I think making it like a speed walk type of movement would work well.

An example would be:

Speedwalk n nw e s s e n ne sw

Obviously the name would need to change to make it something flashier, but the idea would be you could zip around. Making in combat, it could be useful for heavily reducing the chance for an attack to be dodging or partially dodged, at a stamina cost of 1.5x?

The only downside is...I'm not sure what that leaves Ninjutsu.

Speedwalks are almost never a good idea, in my experience. It encourages moving blindly from point A to point C without regard to point B, which would most likely have an undesirable impact, both on the content of the created areas as well as the immersion of the players themselves.

And I am still against "sneak" being a Genjutsu technique. At the very least, I would request a name change, even if its functionality remains completely untouched. Even "Meld" (the user manipulates those in the room to not see them) or "Forced Disinterest" (the user manipulates those in the room to unintentionally avoid looking at where the user is).

"Sneak" (which implies walking around in a stealthy manner) hardly strikes me as a Genjutsu skill. =/

Gatz wrote:Wow, that is a bit overly complex. Love won't be connected to level at all. Max love amount is the same for everyone. However, there also needs to be a negative range, because that would be in the 'hating'. As well as not using decimals, because that is unneeded pain.

-256 -> 255 (or 256 is we don't want to be cool) is pretty standard and gives a lot of wiggle room. As does -100 -> 100

No, the numbers "max love" or "min love" is the range of ryo they would pay -- the Min love is what they would pay if the pet hated them (-100, in this case), and the max love is if they had love maxed out (100).

The range would be (and these are simply benchmarks)

Level 1 : 1~4 Ryo
Level 10 : 10~20
Level 20 : 38~60
Level 30 : 80~120
Level 40 : 134~200
Level 50 : 200~300

Gatz wrote:[...]I wanted something that made it so low level pets could be brought back cheaply, but the pet's love factored in to it.

I was thinking love could be -100 to 100 or -256 to 255, however obviously the higher the range the more it might need to be curved for the price.

However, a Rank S pet that is maxed out should be expensive to bring back.

Maybe...Low level is around 5-10 Ryo, top level is 200-300 Ryo.

I exist to create formulas. Tell me what you think of these ranges.

(Level) + (level/5)^2 + (level/5)^2([200-love]/2) - ([50-level/50][(100+Love)/20])

(level/5) is rounded up to a whole number.
Underlined portion is "base" and is the absolute minimum.

Level 1 :
Max love = 1
Lowest Love = 3.5 (4)

Level 10 :
Max Love = 10 (base)
Lowest Love = 20

Level 20 :
Max Love = 38
Lowest Love = 60

Level 30 :
Max Love = 80
Lowest Love = 120

Level 40 :
Max Love = 134
Lowest Love = 200

Level 50 :
Max Love = 200
Lowest Love = 300

Gatz wrote:Pet Store
The pet store will randomly stock a number of pets. The pets' species will be random, but each species will have pluses and minuses associated with them, which will be covered later.

Could there be different pet stores in different areas, each favoring a certain species in either randomly stocking it (weighted) or in terms of stats? I ask this because areas would naturally be prone to stock things that live in the area -- a desert area would more likely have Scorpions as opposed to tropical birds.

Losing Pets/Re-acquiring Pets
Pets can be lost by death or them escaping because of neglect or abuse. If a pet is killed or runs away, it can be brought back at a bind spot. However, it costs Ryo to bring back a pet. The formula for bringing back pets is: 1 + (Pet's Level) * 3 – (Pet's Love). Note, a pet's love will go negative if they are hating their owner, making the cost for bringing them back go up.

We need some parenthesis so that I am absolutely clear on what you are suggesting. As it stands, the formula indicates 1 + [(Pet's level) * 3] - (Pet's Love).

Now, as I do not understand how "Pet's Love" will be considered (Large numbers? Small numbers?), it'll be a bit difficult to address this equation, however...

[(Pet's level)] - rndup{(Pet's Level) * [3 - {(Pet's Love)/[(Max Love)/3]}]}

This would provide a base cost that cannot decrease as well as create a variable cost based on the love in relation to the max love possible (as I do not know the number, I supplied the variable (max love)). In this way, the minimum the person will pay to revive their pet is (Pet's Level). The maximum is (Pet's Level) * 4.

Max level is 50, then this means you will pay between 50 ~ 200 ryo, depending on its love.

Pet Growth
Pets will level up over time and become stronger. Their rate of growth is determined by the type of animal and how much they love their owner.

Pet Tiers
All pets come in ranks, each rank requires more work to maintain that pet, but they reap more rewards. There is no way to make a pet go up or down in Rank.

Rank D: Pet requires no upkeep and will start out fully loving their owner. This pet can only learn 1 human skill. This pet is level capped to 10.
Rank C: Pet requires no upkeep and will start out mostly loving their owner. This pet can only learn 2 human skills. This pet is level capped to 20.
Rank B: Pet requires minor, every 5-10 hours of play time, upkeep and will start out barely loving their owner. This pet can learn 3 human skills. This pet is level capped to 30.
Rank A: Pet requires regular, every 2-4 hours of play time, upkeep, and will start out barely loving their owner. This pet can learn 4 human skills. This pet is level capped to 40.
Rank S: Pet requires frequent upkeep, every 1-2 days real time clock, and they start out not loving their owner. This pet can only learn 5 human skills. This pet is level capped to 50. For Rank S only, the real time clock means a player must log in once every 1-2 days to perform necessary upkeep for their pet.

I recommend that their rate of growth be decided on ranks, as well, with lower ranks experiencing much faster growth in relation to higher ranks.

I'm also not sure if the rank penalty need be so harsh. In this way, a rank D pet is completely useless in relation to even a Rank C pet, as its max level is twice as high as Rank D. I would recommend that, at higher levels, higher ranks are more powerful (better gains per level? better pet bonuses?), but that they not have such a huge discrepancy between level caps.

An NPC without the "Killer" flag should disengage a target that has been knocked down, in order to prevent said infinite loop (the NPC would knock them down and then be done with it).

The "concentration" value I proposed that determines when a Genjutsu would end (or not end) can be tweaked around to go off of many variables. For example, it could be more than possible for a Genjutsu user to apply Genjutsu to more than one person at a time, but that doing so will increase the steady chakra drain and reduce concentration, making it easier for the targets to break out of it as opposed to if they were the only one affected. Those who specialize further in Genjutsu will be able to hold onto more targets at once (and the targets that are more specialized in Genjutsu will require the most repeated uses since they would keep breaking it).


Genjutsu is, *as it is now*, a Damage over Time approach. You use your Genjutsu, it deals damage for a certain period of time. It runs out, you reuse the Genjutsu on the target. Rinse and Repeat.

Simple DoT.

The main difference between my proposed channeled Genjutsu and how it is now is that, for the most part, it won't just run out on its own -- you have to take steps to release yourself from the Genjutsu (running away from the target, specifically targeting them, Kai, Break). Every few moments there will be a *chance* to break based on factors -- "concentration", as I've put it -- but it won't simply run off as it does now, based on a timer. It will also require you to pay attention for when the target manages to free themself from their Genjutsu as opposed to simply timing it so that your next Genjutsu lands immediately after your first one finishes.

It's also as Wungar says, there could be an inclusion of a skill that allows you to select multiple targets for your Genjutsu at once... for a reduced initial concentration (thus increasing the chances of it breaking earlier than usual), perhaps?

Ideas for puppets...

It could be a good idea to have specific archetypes (I.E. -- defensive, offensive) and then allow the player to set the description of the puppet, themselves. That way, even if there are a bunch of puppeteers running around, they won't have the same puppet.

I somewhat like what Yumi suggested in an earlier thread, that you can have multiple puppets but using a puppet would reduce your maximum chakra, imposing a natural limit on just how many you can use based on the power of the puppets you command.


Upgrades for puppets should be bought from vendors that are located in the various cities (Sunagakure would have the most extensive selection) that can be equipped to the puppets, providing certain benefits (such as "poisonous needles" or "reinforced skeleton").

Should there be an "ability" (Genjutsu, Taijutsu, etc) devoted to Puppeteering? I don't think that any of the abilities we currently have would actually fit the use of puppets. While Ningu is the closest fitting, it brings to mind the use of ninja weapons *without* overt use of chakra. It is also worth mentioning that puppet-users, when they are using their puppets, aren't exactly able to use weaponry, either.

If Ningu was expanded to include more than just smacking things with weapons, then I think adding Puppets to the Ningu branch would have a nice refreshing addition without forcing the puppeteers to go into that branch *just* for the puppets with no other useful skills.


Now, what type of puppets?

Offense
Defense
Auxiliary

Are the main three basic type of puppets. An example of each can easily be found with Kankurou, himself

Offense : Crow
Defense : Salamander
Auxiliary : Black Ant

For the most part, Crow was designed to cause lethal amounts of damage, Black Ant was meant to inhibit the movements of the enemy and otherwise make it easier for Crow to do its job, and Salamander protected Kankurou and the puppets.

That is not to say that the offensive type would not be able to use defensive type weapons, but that it would not benefit it as much.

This can easily be done by making each puppet have a strength in one of the three basic stats -- Health (defense), Chakra (Auxiliary), or Stamina (Offense).

Offensive armaments could use stamina, defensive would improve the effectiveness of health, and auxiliary armaments could use chakra. In this way, while an offensive puppet might use a smoke screen (auxiliary), it would not be able to use it as often nor would it be able to equip and use as many auxiliary functions as a puppet designed specifically for that purpose.

Gatz wrote:

Yumi wrote:genjutsu can't be used on or by most animals.

What? Ma and Pa use a singing Genjutsu! Also, Sasuke locks Manda in a Genjutsu. I'd love to have my pet be able to inflict terrible Genjutsu on my opponents.

Genjutsu targets the brain of the enemy and, strictly speaking, only mammalian species typically have the area of the brain that is primarily affected.

This has also been mentioned canon in the anime, explaining why Shino (with bugs that don't have the required brain structure to be the target of Genjutsu and, thus, are immune) have an advantage in seeing through it.

Daizaburo wrote:I'd like to point out that it has been repeatedly noted in Naruto that "base Bunshin", as you're calling it, merely creates illusory copies of the user, not physical ones. These copies cannot affect the real world, and become dispelled once the enemy (or enemies) attack the images and realize that they are, in fact, illusions. This quality lends itself more heavily to classification as a genjutsu, as opposed to generic ninjutsu.

Incorrect. Genjutsu does not refer to techniques that may mislead an opponent, but specifically techniques that attack the chakra of the opponent's mind directly to manipulate it. If it was a Genjutsu, then the quality of being "fake" would not be there -- the Genjutsu would supply the sight (the illusion that there are ninja), the sound (the illusion that the ninja produce sound when moving), and, even, the touch (hitting an "illusory" ninja while in a Genjutsu would, for all intents and purposes, feel real).

Genjutsu *requires* the chakra manipulation of the brain to be considered a Genjutsu, similar to how Ninjutsu requires the manipulation one's own chakra to be considered Ninjutsu. If I were to present an Illusion Trick, it is not that I am fooling your senses directly (Genjutsu), but putting you into a situation in which you may fool your own senses, instead (releasing chakra in such a way as to bend light and create the illusion of substance -- Ninjutsu).

Regardless, the most telltale sign that it is a Ninjutsu as opposed to a Genjutsu is the fact that it is universally seen. Everyone can see it, regardless of whether the user even knew about the person beforehand, which would be nearly impossible with Genjutsu, considering Genjutu's requirement of chakra manipulation. At the very least, assuming it was a "mass Genjutsu" (impossible at Naruto's current level?), ninja who have a higher caliber of skill than the user (just about every ninja in the scene I am pointing to) would have *completely resisted its effects and saw nothing*.

Genjutsu does not refer to deceptive techniques, but techniques that specifically target the chakra of the opponent's brain.
Bunshin is not a Genjutsu.

However, it might be an interesting improvement on the current way that Bunshin is implemented to allow it to make NPC clones that disappear when attacked and cannot really do anything, save for a few simple things like talking and moving. This would allow it to appear more like the advanced bunshin jutsu, which are derived from this one, and separate it from the rest of genjutsu, like you're talking about.

Yes, having NPC clones that disappear when attacked would also be a step in the right direction, I'd believe, while allowing for a more specialized "Bunshin" technique specifically for Genjutsu later down the road.

Gatz wrote:By the way for the log of our anniversary party meeting:
http://narutofor.us/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1122

Ahah! I'm glad I found this little tidbit (I'm surprised I didn't find it before).

Well, now we have a topic for it, I suppose.

As it stands, when I use a Genjutsu, I form the necessary hand seals and then, voila, I am pushing tons of illusions onto the enemy. At this time, it doesn't matter what I do -- I can run away, I can attack, I can even begin to use other techniques, and the time the Genjutsu will remain on the enemy will stay the same.

What I propose is to make Genjutsu less of a "use and forget" type of attack and more of a "channel" type of skill to both further differentiate it from Taijutsu (instant with delay afterward) and Ninjutsu (delayed use, but no after-use delay) and to also provide more of a realistic approach.

Genjutsu, as it stands, requires the Genjutsu user to manipulate the chakra within the mind of the victim in order to produce the desired effects (illusions, among other things). The initial hand seals are to create the link between the two people, while the rest of the technique relies primarily on the concentration of the Genjutsu user.

Genjutsu should persist on an enemy not for a standard length of time, but indefinitely until they manage to free themselves from it or the user purposely ends the technique. When a person is using Genjutsu on an enemy, there will be a chakra cost to begin the technique (hand seals) and then, if it should be successful, a chakra cost per round to maintain it. During this time, the target will have a chance to break free from the Genjutsu based on the Genjutsu user's level of concentration.


Concentration can be based on a variety of things, including:
How many rooms you've moved in and out of (penalties for moving around)
The usage of other techniques (using Ninjutsu or Taijutsu produces a penalty based on the level of the skill used (can be based on chakra or stamina consumption).
General combat (attacking or being attacked) produces a minor penalty.
The opponent using Genjutsu Kai would produce a large penalty to your concentration.
An opponent with a high Genjutsu level would make it more difficult to maintain your concentration.

The "concentration" value would have a max based on your Genjutsu level. Performing the above actions would weaken the value and make it easier for the enemy to break your Genjutsu, while remaining immobile and inactive will increase the level of your concentration and make it more difficult for them.

The effects of a Genjutsu would also receive a *minor* bonus for higher levels of concentration, as well, promoting effort to maintain it as best as possible.

Ahah! So we're pretty much on the same page, then! That is good to hear.

Gatz wrote:NPC's script

Code: Select all

speech prog I got you now!
say You'll never take me alive!

Room's script

Code: Select all

speech prog You'll never take me alive!
if isnpc($n)
  if mobcount(10) > 1
    mppurge robber
  endif
endif

Don't be scared by the room's script, all it is doing is seeing if the person who said that line is an NPC, and also if our NPC we want to purge exists in the room, in this example his vnum is 10. Here we still want to be careful about using the correct name for the purge, however.

Using mpjunk and mppurge correctly might be a little scary at first, but it becomes vital to use and pretty simply to understand once you get the a basic grasp of it.

Would it not be better to have the command mppurge $n? If it is merely mppurge "robber", would it not purge the first robber in the room, regardless of whether it was the one who spoke the line? This would cause problems if there were more than one robber in the room and, let's say, this was a command to be used right before death (at < 10% hp). If the robber would say its line every round of combat, then the room would quickly begin purging robbers that have nothing to do with the mob who originally spoke. Is using $n to define the target of a script impossible?

Gatz wrote:I think I can dig this, I'd like to see some others weigh in on this. However, just to clarify, sneak wouldn't be made into a battle ability, it would just be a specific skill in each ability type (ie. Taijutsu, Ninjutsu, Genjutsu)?

"Sneak" will be made weaker than it current is and will be a Basic ability, that everyone has access to (gained through combat level). The key point is that it will be a weaker version than it is and have drawbacks associated with it.

Each ability class (Taijutsu, Ninjutsu, Genjutsu) will have their own more powerful variation of "sneak" which serves the same ends but is in itself unique. The example I gave, Quick Move, allows you to quickly move in and out of rooms without being noticed (while the new sneak would potentially allow people to spot you and slows your movement) and can serve either as a potential escaping technique *or* as a strong engagement technique. As a bonus, I would also suggest Quick Move have a Kawarimi-esque effect for NPCs -- using Quick Move 4-5 will prevent monsters from knowing which direction you are escaping. This provides a good alternative to the Ninjutsu Kawarimi for Taijutsu users and gives it its own use aside from just sneaking around the backs of players and, though it is in effect a "Sneak" skill, it has an identity all its own.

Food for thought : Henge is already a rather powerful "sneak" skill, as it disguises the user to prevent those around them from recognizing them.