Formations

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Formations

Postby Ichiro » Thu May 20, 2010 2:34 pm

Yama and I were talking the other day about how it might be nice to have some kind of team formation set-up. Perhaps something where the group leader could set which formation and who was where, and each formation would possibly provide some sort of bonus of some kind (i.e. less damage for group members, more damage dealt by group, other things....etc.). We were just thinking this would give people and even greater incentive to group up.
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Re: Formations

Postby Gatz » Thu May 20, 2010 3:37 pm

Materia Magica has something like this, I always thought it was really cool. Maybe the command could be tactic and be simply a way the group leader can purpose people. Something like maybe:

Tactic (Formation)/None
Tactic Ignore

Tactic ignore makes it so you don't do the formations your group leader tries to form.

Tactic None reverts back to doing whatever.

Tactic Formation could be based on ...no idea...Styles maybe? And they put mods on the entire team.

For example:
Tactic "Kame" gives everyone in the group a defense boost that scales with the size of the group and the ranks of the people in the group, ie the higher the ranked ninja the better the defense is.

Tactic "Panda" (If it is based on style), sort of like Kame but with offense.

And then sort of mixtures, where maybe hand seal time is reduced but damage is also reduced, or maybe you can only use Taijutsu moves and not moves that require hand seals.

This also popped in my head...maybe in terms of 'group bonus' it is each group member adds 1x to the mod, if they are a Genin 2x, a Chuunin 3x, etc.

That could be cool...anyways, that is my 2 cents.
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Re: Formations

Postby Ichiro » Thu May 20, 2010 9:15 pm

That sounds pretty much exactly like what we were thinking, only better. We originally started thinking about it as a way maybe for groups to choose an individual to basically be the one taking the brunt of the damage, or maybe have one character being "protected" by the others.
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Re: Formations

Postby Gatz » Fri May 21, 2010 1:04 pm

Well, as I suggested it, that wouldn't be too hard to put in, but I think I'd make it a BA. However, if it is a BA, then what level? I don't see the big downside to grouping, the exp bonus is off the charts for it now and if you can get a group of at least 3 people it seems very worth it.
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Re: Formations

Postby Ichiro » Sat May 22, 2010 12:54 am

At lower levels...I agree. The problem comes in at higher levels. While the experience boosts might or might not be worth it at higher levels (haven't really had a chance to gauge it lately), it's hard to balance that out for two reasons (in my opinion).

First: When you have high level people all grouping together against high level mobs, they are almost definitely going to start using jutsu (makes sense, they have it, they should use it). The problem is that usually one or two people out of a group of are going to get all/most of the experience, and the others are probably just going to be there doing....something (or nothing). I suppose this is something that is more necessary to address on the part of the actual players, as greater planning and cooperation would allow you to decide who's going to do what and when. Things like Combo and jutsu combination definitely alleviate this issue a great deal (although, it becomes a problem when you mix what villages are trying to use ninjutsu; and also, I don't know what the experience distribution is like when two jutsu combine). So basically, this isn't a major issue, but I think it's something that would be further alleviated partly by formations themselves, and partly by the next point being alleviated.

Second: Let's create an example team (with example levels): Ichiro (110), Yamashita (110), Isamu (110), and Shiro (100). In our example team we have two sturdy taijutsu users (Isamu and Yamashita), a ninjutsu user (Ichiro), and a genjutsu user (Shiro). Now, (with things as they currently are) this team walks into a room with Super-Tough-Mob-A (STMA). STMA decides he's going to attack Shiro, because Shiro is the lowest level in the group. Yamashita then proceeds to rescue Shiro from STMA, who is very intent on turning Shiro into a pudding-like consistency. Yamashita takes STMA's attacks for a couple of rounds before STMA switches back to mercilessly beating Shiro (who has the last HP of anyone in the group).

The problem with this is that there isn't any way to "protect" one party member, which now that we have genjutsu in seems like an even more important concept.

Now, a few rounds later, Shiro has just had too much and has to get himself out of the fight or face certain death. STMA then decides he's going to attack Yamashita (who has been doing impressive amounts of damage to STMA). After a few rounds, Yamashita is hurting pretty bad, so Isamu decides to jump in and rescue Yamashita. However, Isamu can't pull off the same kind of damage as Yamashita because he has noticeably less strength than Yamashita, so STMA quickly decides (perhaps the next round or the round after that) to switch back to killing Yamashita.

The problem here (a lesser problem than the previous one certainly, but a problem none the less) is that players don't have any really direct way to control who is taking the most damage or, in some cases, dealing the most damage (on the most basic level).


Also, something that just occurred to me is this: The system could be implemented in such as way as to actually make the group leader be involved in being the leader (and thus actually earning the additional xp boost the leader receives) by actively having to pay attention to the formation and issue commands during combat as the situation changed.

Basically, I think that groups are fine and cool and awesome at low levels, but as players get higher up in level....grouping actually becomes less and less appealing.
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Re: Formations

Postby Yamashita » Sat May 29, 2010 7:37 pm

First of all, I agree with the points that Ichiro brought up in the previous posts. Grouping becomes tedious as you get to higher levels.

Gatz wrote:However, if it is a BA, then what level?

If it's possible to give it upon getting Genin, it would make loads of sense to apply it there, as that's when ninja first join groups.
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